The Vancouver Sun columnist and blogger Miro Cernetig wrote a lovely piece that suggested a debate between Coucillor Peter Ladner and Sam Sullivan. I am very much in support of this idea.
TheVancouverManifesto, as you may know, lies pretty liberal when it comes to politics. But I’m just going to put it out there: If Peter Ladner represented the NPA against Vision and COPE candidates I would vote for him. In struggling to explain myself to my lefty friends, Miro Cernetig explains it beautifully
After years in the game, Peter Ladner is learning something new about himself and politics.
He's an ideas guy at heart, an introspective sort. He likes the thinking part of city politics, the mulling over of policy -- whether it's the big stuff, such as making Vancouver a high-tech city, or the small, smart stuff, say putting a better bicycle lane over a bridge to downtown.
Here's the problem. As he challenges Mayor Sam Sullivan for their civic party's nomination, Ladner's now caught in the nasty grind of machine politics.
I have seen enough of Ladner to know he is a stand up guy. He is engaged in the community and often shows his face on panel presentations on city ideas. Out of city hall he has proven himself an intelligent, engaged and concerned citizen.
IN city hall he has done the same. Throughout EcoDensity debates he has been an ideas man, supporting the idea of EcoDensity but probably not supporting the process of EcoDensity. The Tyee wrote an article on a confrontation between Ladner and a citizen presenting to coucil during the EcoDensity public hearings:
With Vancouver's city councillors listening, a citizen of upper Kitsilano took the lectern and offered a plea against the controversial Eco-Density Charter. The gist of his complaint: Eco-densification has so far been a rash, hasty and seemingly undemocratic process.
Then councillor and mayoral hopeful Peter Ladner posed one simple question: What ideal outcome would you envision for the Vancouver of the future?
Mr. Upper Kits replied something about wanting a city nurtured by a grassroots process and community input and . . .
"Let's just leave process out of it for the moment," clarified Ladner. "What outcome do you want?"
An outcome that is formed by the views and needs of residents . . .
"Not process -- outcome," repeated Ladner, his voice growing crisp.
The now-stammering presenter wound up his manifesto not with a bang but a whimper. He seemed to know what kind of process he wanted, but not what kind of outcome
The point is not to show Ladner can shut people up- but to prove the point that most people who oppose EcoDensity don’t oppose the plan itself (number 12 on the DTES notwithstanding), they just oppose the PROCESS and Sullivan’s knack for being a publicity whore and trying to patent the name “EcoDensity” for his own fame.
Ladner is decisive and knows a good idea when he hears one. The problem is that he can’t CHAMPION that idea with the proper PROCESS because of party politics, or what Cernetig refers to as machine politics.
Even on the issue of widening to Burrard Bridge for bike lanes (rather than allocating the side lanes to preserve the beauty and heritage of the bridge), Ladner had to stay, officially, mum. In a head to head debate Ladner would no doubt be able to prove that he is a strong advocate for the city of Vancouver. I believe Ladner would be an incredible Leader and we need to separate his Leadship ability from NPA party politics.
Which brings me to my plea- Peter Ladner, please run as an independent. You are much too talented to be gagged by a party that is holding you back.
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Thursday, 27 March 2008
Peter Ladner, I like you so run as an independent
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22 comments:
I think he will if he loses.
I'm almost tempted to become a member so I can vote!
http://www.straight.com/article-133771/why-peter-ladner-will-likely-never-become-mayor-of-vancouver
So anonymou left that link and it led to a Georgia Sraight article that is titled, "why-peter-ladner-will-likely-never-become-mayor-of-vancouver"
it made me sad to read it but i still think it's slightly bull b/c demographics don't mean THAT much. Just because sullivan speaks a million lnguages doesn't mean the people who speak those languages respect him any more. fine, he's smar, i'll admit it- good work on knowing a lot of languages- I still don't like you.
but on the more intersting front for me was this:
"Ladner's entry into municipal politics in 2002 was promoted by former NPA councillor Gordon Price, who is also gay.
Another gay former NPA councillor, Alan Herbert, has often criticized Sullivan for promoting the 2005 candidacy of Ronald Leung. Leung opposed equal marriage rights for gays and lesbians. This is another reason why the gay and lesbian community might unite around Ladner."
I DIDN'T KNOW LADNER WAS GAY!
holy crap, NOW I know why I'm so drawn to Lsdner (PS, I have a weakness for older gay men).
ok, that still doesn't detract from Ladner being an awesome candidate.
not with you on this one.
1. Process is important (part of democracy, yes?) so shutting someone up to rush to the outcome doesn't cut it for me. Even if the outcome is one with which I agree.
2. Nothing I've seen or heard from him convinces me he gives a damn for my neighbourhood (dtes)
Sam you're really drinking the Ladner kool-aid. Ladner says nothing for two years while Sullivan trademarks EcoDensity, jams civil city through, takes hundreds of thousands of dollars, baits the unions for no reason and then when it looks like he could run for Mayor, he decides to speak out, and you fall for this "team player" stuff. How about being on the team of Vancouver citizens who deserve better?
Where was this high-brow political thinking when it came to handing out an $800,000 contract for private police? or the social housing that was cut from SE False Creek? or the eliminated child care spaces? how about when he cut the women's committee? or ended the child and youth advocate?
you can't criticize Sam's policies and then say that Ladner would be different. Style and process yes, political policy difference - no. But I don't want more consultation for my project civil city, I don't want civil city to begin with.
Ladner should just go provincial, he'd become environment minister, and then Anton can begin campaigning for Mayor in 2011.
Re: "I DIDN'T KNOW LADNER WAS GAY!"
Hahahaha! He's actually not gay, but it appears that he the sense to know that hard-conservative social policy has no place in civic policy.
Hey Van Kid,
Just a thought: if the total implosion of the preceding COPE -> Friends of Larry -> Vision+COPE civic government taught cicvic politicians anything, it was that you need unity to survive at City Hall.
If you've been on a team VK, you know that you stand by your captain as long as you can. Now Ladner's had enough of the ineffective Sam BS. Instead of breaking ranks and creating a huge implosion, he's waited until now. It takes a fair amount of courage to stand up to a failing leader. Courage being something that the rest of the NPA caucus is running a little short on right now.
Considering Anton's mayoral aspirations, I imagine her complacency has more to do with ensuring her own political survival than it does her pleasure with SS.
Paul.
I've got some PRETTY fun emails lately about thispost, including mr. peter ladner himself.
for the record,he's not gay. i think it might have been wishful thinking on my part after reading that magazine quote that I interpreted as..he's gay.
anyhow, i'd post thm up but i think there was a reason why tey were private emails. but just to let you know, i've got a lot of emails from the LEFT that are supporting Ladner as well.
Ladner says that he needs people to regster as npa so they can vote for him.
sorry ladner, i wish i could- but I can't support the NPA in that way. If you win I will vote for you in the election, but I won't sell my soul and become an NPA member.
Samantha,
I agree with your views on Peter. I have always liked Peter... as he has always made an effort to speak to me regarding any and all issues relating to our City. In the early days, when Sam Sullivan was a councilor , he too had my respect. But after Sam became Mayor, something happened ...it may have been his fear of losing the top job that made him insular.
In any case, the whole Ecodensity debate is a bit lop sided, when only one side of the discussion is highlighted - the view from people pushing it. There are many many problems with the so-called ecodensity. For one thing, it's not new. We (the lower mainland Metro region) has embraced this for decades. It is also not a balanced approach. The cultural, social and transportation components have been played down. This is what makes there so-called "Tricycle" approach work... but read carefully - there's nothing about Arts and Culture (I'm not talking about Cultural artefacts, but Performing, Visual and other Cultural elements that nourishes the soul).
I sincerely hope that the debate with Ecodensity takes on a new life when Peter Ladner becomes Mayor. So for this to happen, we, who truly love our City must figure out ways on how to make it happen.
Good luck.
tUCC
Well, no surprise seeing Vancouver Kid show up her to post his Vision Vancouver talking points. If Ladner is no different than Sullivan, than why did Vision Vancouver ask Ladner to run under their banner for mayor:
http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/02/15/Ladner/
Actually, Ladner's basically an introverted and policy-wonkish verison of Al Degenova, a long-time NPA rep who wants to be mayor now for Vision Vancouver.
I'd also support Ladner running as an independent, just because it would split the vote and give more space for the councillor who is head and shoulders smarter and more progressive than any other elected rep in town: COPE's David Cadman...He's not gay either, but he is older - so maybe Samantha would consider endorsing him if he runs for mayor?
and its no surprise that anonymous is spouting his COPE talking points. Anyone who references a Tom Sandborne article (a "journalist" who professed his love for Tim Louis in the Courier) as a counter-point is living in September 2002.
Cadman is way too lazy to be Mayor. I'd be willing to bet that no one has missed more council meetings than him these past 2 years. He's always jet-setting around the world as Vancouver's messenger of peace. And he has brought forward zilch in terms of policy. The only time he gets in the news is when he gets a sound clip off of a Vision motion (housing, plastic bags, SROs). and if he is crazy enough to run, COPE will be lucky to raise over $50,000 as they'll have no council incumbents, the unions (except the VDLC) will back Vision, Spencer is off to provincial politics, Al Blakey retires, Sharon G jumps to Vision...who are they going to run??
and on the original topic: Ladner is not progressive. Sorry van manifesto, but you're going to need to do a better job backing up your argument than abstract descriptions of his thought process and Ladner debate quotes.
re Cadman- ehh..I don't think he's LAZY, per se... I really like Cadman, think he's progressive, has good ideas, but he's not a teacm player. He's good opposition. And maybe I view him that way because he IS the opposition and he just does his job well. (see http://thevancouvermanifesto.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-want-last-four-hours-of-my-life-back.html
re Ladner: you're right, he's not all that progressive, did I say he was? What I'm saying is that he has good LEADERSHIP skills. AND he's a team player. Polilitics is a lot of bureaucracy and I think Ladner would be good playing the game of bureaucracy, but efficient bureacracy (if that's not an oxymoron). He knows process, but he also knows a good idea when he sees one and can get it done expediently. I think he's a really smart guy and would know how to unite council to work on good ideas. Having an opposition in city hall isn't only to have a healthy debate, but also to get those people thinking and agreeing on great ideas for the city and LEARNING what would make it BETTER. There are good ideas out there, debate shouldn't be to only KILL ideas, it should be there to improve upon plans. I think Ladner is both critical enough to properly debate an idea, but a good enough leader to help unite council to make good decisions.
just my two cents, yo.
Sam, if you're tossing around the L-word "leadership" you better back this up. What has Ladner led on, ever?
Wards? He took a summer vacation and came back for the victory celebrations.
Last summer's strike? He took a summer vacation and came back with a goatee to prove it, then published a provocative anti-CUPE editorial the day after the union agreed to bargain again.
Policies? Before he took down his blog there were only 2 Ladner-driven policies he touted. 2010 Gardens by 2010, and city-wide WiFi. In nearly 2 years since the gardens initiative was floated I've seen exactly zero gardens created as a result of this policy. WiFi? Dead.
Peter talks a good talk, but he's utterly aimless on most issues other than tolls on the Granville/Cambie bridges and shutting, I mean, opening lanes on the Burrard.
Love your blog, Sam, it just needs an injection of facts.
Vancouver Kid, stop posting as "anonymous" and trying to gain your own support.
Samantha, don't listen to such drivel. VK is a Vision Vancouver monkey who is paid to bash any other opinion out there and put out Vision' slate.
rather than making wild accusations Thomas, why don't you try responding to the comments? you don't agree with me? or anonymous? feel free to enlighten us all why that is.
Anonymous, who sounds a lot like Vision Vancouver staff person Kevin Quinlan (Vancouver Kid), has the audacity to deride "journalist" Tom "Sandborne."
Tom Sandborn is indeed a local journalist, who covers the labour beat for TheTyee.ca (http://thetyee.ca/Bios/Tom_Sandborn/), and who contributes often to a number of other newspapers. Sandborn is also a long-time social justice activist, board member with the BCCLA, etc. And, yes, Sandborn reported that Vision Vancouver's co-chair Mike McGee asked Peter Ladner to run for Vision. Check out the story here:
http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/02/15/Ladner/
As for David Cadman's "jetting-setting," he is the President of the International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives, and attends events like the Bali meeting on climate change in that capacity. COPE has been the only party, in the history of Vancouver civic politics, that has consistently supported city council taking stands on international issues such as peace and global warming.
Derrick O'Keefe
Executive Member-at-large, COPE
VK: you say that Ladner has no leadership, but you stayed quiet on the point of team player.
Being a good team player is part of leadership. Yes he went back on the Burrard Bridge issue, but that was because he had to be a team player and suck it up for the NPA. We are talking about Ladner as an individual. Ladner is a good councillor and he knows when he has to support his team even if he doesn't like it. Ladner has not kept it a secret within his party that he disapproves of the Bridge issue. But in the public he has to save NPA face. I call that team playing and I call that good politics. If he is elected Mayor it is no doubt he will vocalize on the bridge once more and give the party a 180 in direction on that subject.
Thomas
Sorry Derrick and Thomas, but I'm not the anonymous poster you both presume me to be, although I'll cut Derrick some slack because he's heard my TS opinions before.
Sadly Thomas, I don't share your definition of being a good team player as supporting bike lanes on the Burrard bridge, then saying you oppose them just before the election, and secretly holding this policy position deep inside until you can become Mayor, at which point you will somehow drag your party around to support it.
As for Sandborn's article on Ladner, it's a he-said she-said story. This whole lefty conspiracy that Vision had meetings with Ladner to lure him over to run for Mayor is about as laughable as Larry jumping in the Mayor's race.
Whatever Vancouver Kid may say, there's only two or three people in town who would disparage Tom Sandborn in those kind of charged partisan terms.
If the substance of the story - that Mike Magee asked Peter Ladner about running for mayor under Vision's banner - is in dispute, then someone from Vision should have responded formally. It's not that controversial, anyway, since Vision has Al Degenova contesting the nomination. Degenova and Ladner are both pretty well established with the City's developers and well-heeled crowd. Neither has any standing as a "progressive."
It doesn't contribute to the political discourse in Vancouver to have councillors smeared as "lazy" because they have international commitments that they take seriously, nor to have long-time journalists and activists' credentials called into question by political staffers hiding behind anonymous postings.
Derrick O'Keefe
Let me spell this out for you: I DID NOT WRITE THAT POSTING. There's no staffer masquerading as anonymous. you need to give up the conspiracy theories. as for the sandborn stuff, the guy's written lots of stuff attacking Vision and to say that only 2-3 people would ever feel that way is laughable.
Go hunt down the anonymous poster and tell him/her what you think, but leave me out of this.
Oh gawd. So Ladner's saving grace is now that he's a 'team player'? Okay, let's try to prove this. Have any one of you been in an elected caucus, or sat on a board or committee? Then you know that the cardinal rule of governance is to build support among your group. That's your job, period. You are elected/appointed to persuade and influence, and ultimately vote. Peter Ladner now sits on the sidelines of the NPA, without a single member of his council caucus supporting him. Think about that for a second, and don't assume that everyone is just trying to suck up to the Mayor. Peter has had 2 years with this group and not one will support him? Out of 14 other caucus members only one is declaring support for Ladner?
There is a team, but no one is playing with Peter. In politics, that speaks volumes.
Ladner has declared because he chose to listen only to malcontents within the NPA, and because of hubris. Peter, and the coterie that surrounds him, truly believe that a Ladner deserves to be Mayor of Vancouver.
And VK, you ARE paid by Vision Vancouver to stirs things up online, and according to the party's financial declaration you DO donate some of that salary back as a donation to the party. So please don't get all righteous on us.
ahhh here's what I was looking for:
Ladner not jumping ship
Feb, 15 2008 - 8:40 AM
VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - He may not be happy with the Non Partisan Association, but Vancouver city councillor Peter Ladner says he won't take a run at the mayor's job by jumping ship.
It's a rumour that's been making rounds ever since NPA councillor Peter Ladner had lunch with the head of opposition party Vision Vancouver.
Ladner says he's a longtime friend of vision president Mike McGee and McGee jokingly suggested Ladner run for mayor under the Vision banner.
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